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Channel: people – Bertozzi's Bytesize

Recorded @ConnectedPodcast with Sue Unerman/Mediacom

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A week or so ago I ‘sat down’ with Sue Unerman and ASD from MediaCom to discuss what’s happening with me, Spotify and the wider industry. Being connected has never been more important! Thanks to Connected Podcast for the opportunity.

To listen on Spotify click here

 


My answers on getting a job, interviewing for school leavers and students.

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I was lucky enough to take part in a Speakers4schools virtual talk and Q&A. I was blown away by the attendance, 1100 kids and 300 questions asked. Lock down or not I could not manage all 300 so I answered 18 that were sent as follow ups. If you are a school leaver or student, thinking about getting a job, work experience or how to prepare for interviews then I hope there are some useful tips!

1. What is your morning routine? Well I think my morning routine can be described as a pre and post Covid situation. Before COVID I would aim to be in the office for 830 so everything works back from there. Normally I will try and grab a few minutes with my son as he prepares to go to school, but after that quickly down to the station, so unfortunately not a good example as I don’t eat breakfast! I will try and grab something before I get to work, or when I arrive if I have time. The one rule I do have is that I don’t look at my email until I consider that work has started. As I have American bosses, I normally have a lot of emails landing in my inbox overnight, I consider the start of work to be when I am ready. It was a piece of advice I once received that if you roll over and check your email while still waking up and you see some bad news, it can spike adrenaline that is bad for the mind and body, just like sprinting before you have warmed up. The train is basically the start of my work so I’ll grab myself a coffee at the station and sit down and start to go through what has arrived through the night, I think about the day ahead, check my calendar and see what meetings I have planned, and hope I am ready for them. And that’s my routine.

2. At what age would you say was a good age to start at you first Saturday or holiday job? I don’t think there’s any rules around how young you start your first job. All work is work so if you’re helping your parents clean the car, or helping out around the house that is the start of life‘s work ethic. I think if you want to have lots of experience on your CV by the time you’re getting ready to leave Secondary School then you should have attempted to do some simple jobs we discussed; paper rounds, working in a shop perhaps some basic office work. Work experience is not always so much about the actual act of work but it’s what it says about you as a person and what you are learning to do. So when you’re thinking about your CV and you are thinking about what to do you should be thinking about what someone reading your CV would read into it. I gave the example of a paper round. The fact one has to do it every day, has to get up early before school shows a lot of commitment and energy and strength that tells someone about you. In the long run if you are thinking of working in an office then try and get experience in an office environment, but working in bars, restaurants is all important. What does working in a restaurant teach you? It teaches you customer Service, teaches you how to deal with people, it’s all life skills.

3. What is the hardest part of applying for a job and what was the atmosphere like when you first entered the interview? The hardest part about applying for jobs is the actual work you have to put into it, it is very tempting to write one letter, send it to 100 people, one email, send to hundred people, and hope that some of them will stick. Getting your first job is one of the most important things you will do in your life, so you have to treat it like that, and you have to put the work in to do it successfully. My suggestion is to start narrow and work out, so pick your top 10/20 companies that you want to work for and really do your research on them. Then and only then, should you send an email because that email should be full of insights and highlights you’ve understood from your research. Don’t take this work lightly, it’s a job in itself but if you do it well you are more likely to succeed. As far as research is concerned, follow the Twitter, LinkedIn, and Instagram accounts and read through them, as you will understand what is on their minds and what’s important to these companies in real time. Make sure you know when their internship program starts, make sure you understand if they have have work placements, do all the suitable research you can and then, finally, don’t be afraid to track a few people down, it is absolutely fine to contact someone directly on LinkedIn with a well written note and express your interest. It’s important that you start with that kind of communication.

4. What are good interview tips? and what can you do to stop yourself sounding nervous in an interview? Those are two very big questions! I’ll start with the interview tips, they’re not going to sound very interesting because some are very basic, but I can assure you a lot of people get them wrong. If indeed you do get them right you will put yourself in the top 30% of all the people who interview. So first of all make sure you do the basics; turn up well before the interview time, don’t take chances, don’t plan for 15 minutes before because that can be eaten up very quickly with delays. Turn up an hour before, and go and have a coffee, then you stake the place out and you’re ready to go. Secondly, it’s important to dress smartly – now a jacket and tie may seem an overkill nowadays, and probably is, but it is a sign that you care and that you really want the job, I personally don’t believe it will be taken as a negative, I think it shows that you’re trying to be as smart as you can which can never be a bad thing. That said if it’s not a shirt and tie I think it’s fine to have more casual clothing, just be smart smart casual and well turned out.

Lastly, and most importantly, do your research, don’t be afraid to ask who is interviewing, try and get the name of the person because perhaps you can search them online. My favourite is if they have presented at an event and it is on Youtube, you really get a feeling for them. Maybe they put stuff on LinkedIn etc, this is a window for you to understand something about the interviewer, and what happens is when you enter the interview you feel like you know them a little bit better and you will naturally feel relaxed. Don’t over use the information; I suggest not repeating back to them things are set on Twitter or on LinkedIn, just use it as background information and try to combine with your answers so it sounds a bit more organic. Lastly, do your research on the company as we said before in terms of writing the letter don’t answer obvious questions with obvious answer if Sam says ‘Why do you want to work at Spotify’ don’t say because you ‘love music’, say it’s because you’ve been reading about the sustainability policy, and that is something you care about deeply and you only want work for companies that have that kind of policy. Make sure you know everything about the job you’re doing as much as you can. I would also suggest trying to find out if there are people you know in the industry that you’re trying to get into, that could be distant relatives friends or friends of friends, ask around, because a single conversation could give some tips and insight into what actually happens in these companies, and it will make you sound much better than the candidate who hasn’t been able to get that inside information.

The question about nervousness is a really really good one, there are good tips and techniques about this, but without sounding repetitive one of the best things that will make you feel less nervous if you are well prepared. If you know your topic, if you’re prepared, if you’ve written notes, if you thought about it, I promise you you’re going to feel more confident when you walk into that room. Always make sure that you have prepared for the easiest questions, what I often see and hear when people are practising for interviews is, take a question like ‘why should I hire you’ for instance and in your head you may have a really great plan for that answer, yeah I know I’m gonna talk about this I’m gonna talk about that. This is where nerves kick in and if you have not practiced, you can fluff your lines! Make sure to have a proper answer to why should I hire you and why do you want to work at this company, that needs just as much effort as working at the balance sheet of a company or whatever else you might prepare for. The other small tip for the interview is people often ask you about your life, tell me about the things you’ve done, tell me about the job you’ve done, what you don’t need to do is go through those jobs one by one and explain each one of them. Have a story ready, in business they often talk about the elevator pitch; it basically means how could you describe yourself or your company in 2 minutes, so what you have to do is script an overall story that people can follow, that will describe your journey and highlight the most important aspects that say the most about you.

5. How does good communication skills play a role in an interview? There are two things to take into account in an interview; good communication and good knowledge, we talked a lot about good knowledge so I won’t go over that again, so good communication becomes the next biggest thing. Body language is an incredibly important aspect, it may sound a little bit daunting but in actual fact people judge you very quickly in the first 10 seconds so you have the potential to lose an interview. As you wait to be seen, dont slouch around on a couch staring at your phone. Be upright and attentive, always be polite to receptionists, look around you, read any materials lying around about the company. When you’re being welcomed stand up straight and confident, be confident and don’t be afraid to ask questions about how they are, shake their hands firmly (if we are still shaking hands), and don’t have too much clutter, bags and jackets, keep it simple, keep it clean. When you come into the room if they ask if you want a coffee, my suggestion is to probably say no, I am just always one for keeping it simple, you can sit down at the same time, and get on with the meeting. In the interview, sit up straight, lean into the conversation, that is then giving signals that you’re keen and enthusiastic and you want the job. My last piece of advice on this that I was given, which I wish I had remembered back in the day, if halfway through or at the start of an interview you don’t like the feel of the person or you don’t like the sound of the job keep going like it’s the most important job you’re ever going to get. What happens is because there is an interviewer will pick up on your disinterest and write you off but maybe by the end of the interview, you change your mind and have warmed into the sound of the role, but by then it will be too late. You only should only worry about whether you want the job or not when it’s offered to you, before then you have to impress. My final tip on the interviews is that you may be interviewing in three or four different categories of industries like finance, advertising and travel. Treat every interview as if it is the only job you have ever wanted. It is totally fine to be interviewing with different companies within finance but an interviewer does not want to hear you say you would happily work in travel or finance or whatever – that shows indecisiveness and not enough desire, so keep that to yourself!

6. On a scale from 1-10 how determined do you think you were in getting the job you applied for? It is funny you should ask that question because my very first boss will tell you, and this is very old sounding, that the fax machine was ringing non stop on their desk with me repetitively sending my application letter. I didn’t actually do that to pester them, I just wasn’t sure if it was getting through so I kept sending it! If I see that person now today 25 years later they still remember it and I still still talk about it, so I think it’s fair to say that I was pretty determined and then I think if you really want the job it’s the only way to be

7. What advice would you give to current year 12s who are writing their personal statements who as a result of Covid-19 restrictions are unable to fulfil their work experience? That is a really good question, and I know it is incredibly difficult for people today in this situation. The only thing I can say is always be honest, honesty will always come first, but start to think about how you could frame your experience. Think in terms of what you wanted to achieve or perhaps what you missed out on doing, but at least set out what your plans were during this period of time with complete honesty. I would say don’t waste time when you come out of the situation start to think about what you can do in advance and, depending on your age, perhaps it’s something you can do now to volunteer through this difficult times, which I know would always look make future employers look favourably upon your work ethic and show how you care about the community around you.

8. How can you write a CV if you have not had a job or work experience before? I think for your early CV, if you don’t have work experience, focus on your school career, perhaps think about anything that you have contributed during your school career. If you haven’t done that, then think creatively about what you could say your interests have been, what your interests are and so on. I will say though that not having work experience is something that you should probably start to sort out.

9. Do you normally have to rely on a person’s CV to know about his/her skills? The later into your career you go, the less we rely on the CV, whether it is Linkedin or contacts in the industry, or just searching the industry news, we can find out a lot. LinkedIn will tell them a lot about where you’ve worked how long you’ve worked there and so on. As you start your career I think yes the CV is an important starting point. I would suggest that you consider how to make it is as good as possible because we will go there first. Perhaps you have been in the local newspaper or had some kind of recognition so please make sure to mention in cover note. Your cover note is very important, it tells the story of your CV, it allows you to shine outside of just the CV.

11. What would you recommend for those of us who do not have the opportunity for work experience? (I live in a rural area with few local jobs) Obviously I can’t suggest without knowing exactly where you live or what is this happening there but I would check to make sure that you’re not being too picky about what jobs are available. Would you wash up in a pub, would you deliver newspapers, what would you do or not do because if you are being selective about what you would do, you are making life tough for yourself. If none of those things work then perhaps you can find a way to be a little entrepreneurial and create your own little business, perhaps a car washing enterprise, perhaps you can help people in the community, perhaps you can volunteer, volunteering is incredibly important and we have not touched on that; if you don’t have work experience, volunteering is the perfect way to show that you care both about the community around you, that you’ve got a work ethic and a drive to do something even in your local area for free, especially in a period like now.

12. What is the difference between the access to jobs in your time and now? I can only talk about my industry, but I would say that what we have seen over the last few years a big increase in realisation that we have to not be fishing in the same ponds. So in the white collar marketplace the default has always been to hire graduates. Now there is a much greater need for diversity and inclusion, which is incredibly important in the workplace and people are looking to scholarships and work placements and internships that are more inclusive than ever before. There is a much greater focus on the creation of opportunities that don’t rely on graduate degrees, and a willingness to see beyond the obvious set of benchmarks. So I’m encouraged that opportunities have opened up for school leavers and others which has to be a good thing. That said, it is a slow process and the BAME community is still not represented well because of hiring as much as anything, it has to accelerate.

13. Did you think that you would be in your current position when you were Young? I always like to put that question back into context of if I was 18 and you offered me my current job role and company at this age, I would absolutely take it now. I would never have imagined that I could have ended up being at such a great company in a really interesting job at 48! At school, I would have been described as an average student for the type of school it was, yet here I am. So I didn’t think back then that I would be in any specific job, the only thing that I would say, I had self confidence and determination to keep working hard. I mentioned on the Q&A that my parents are an inspiration for hard work and determination and I definitely had that built in, and always felt that if I kept pushing, kept trying and didn’t let defeats set me back that I could achieve something.

14. What sort of things does your job entail? And what experience did you have before you joined the company? My role is about leadership, now there are lots of definitions, but the way I would describe leadership is you have to be a good communicator, both in the company and externally, you have to set a direction and a goal for people to be able to get behind and understand. Everyone likes to know where they are heading and why they’re heading there. It is also a role that is not always pleasant, you have to make tough decisions about people and structures. You don’t do it lightly, but if you have a plan and you understand what the end benefits of this will be it is important to stick to your plan. Although this job was very different from previous roles, there were some needs that required what we called transferable skills. That means that some things you do are very specific, others can carry from one job to another in a different industry, leadership skills are very much an example. That is why it is important to understand your skills and grow them in any role you may be in, because you don’t know what the next job may be.

15. Have u been through challenges? How did you overcome them? Great question! Careers are long, careers often have ups and downs, the part of it where things go great and accelerate very quickly, but there are points where your career may plateau slightly and become a bit uneventful. The key to your career is to recognise the different stages and when to make the right decisions. I was fortunate enough to make a couple of decisions in my career that took me into parts of my industry when they were very early on and most people were not interested in them, but then turned out to be huge. That put me in growth sectors and exciting times. That always takes a little bit of stubbornness, and not listening to everyone around you. But as I say careers are long and you have to not panic when you do have a difficult patch. Equally if you are happy at work, my advice is hang on to it, careers are long and it is important to try and be happy at work. I had a period of my career in a company that I really didn’t enjoy and ultimately I had to take leave from that company and I was out of work for a few months. During that time I never once thought that I wouldn’t get back to where I wanted to be, in fact the 18 months experience taught me exactly what I did not want out of a job and after I wrote my tick list I worked hard and I chased companies that fitted my ideal job. The next seven years of my career were possibly some of the happiest and most successful, it just shows, a set back does not have to be the end. Just dig in and keep trying.

16. Do you need to be able to work well with other people to work for Spotify? and is there any way in which disabled people can get employed by big companies? I think any company has a requirement to work well with other people, how we communicate with each other, collaborate with each other, and work with often quite complex matrix of teams to deliver on projects is all part of working office life. So yes, I would assume that that has to be part of the equation for my industry. Every industry is different however and of course there are more jobs that are more insular and don’t require a lot of team interaction. There is absolutely no reason why a disabled person should not be able to find employment and whether it’s Spotify or elsewhere, it’s an area that is Incredibly important, There is so much further to go in terms of making that a reality at scale though. But I know there’s a lot of good people and a lot of great companies that want to make sure that they create opportunities for everyone in an equal and fair way.

17. Do you think music can change someone’s life who has Cerebral palsy? That is such an interesting question, I don’t have a specific response to that but I do know that we have worked with Parkinsons as an example, and we teamed up with a Parkinson‘s charity where they studied how the repetitive beat of certain music could help people judge the steps as they walk and time the steps with the music. So I absolutely think music is important. It’s also important to mental health as well as physical and wellness issues. It’s one of the reasons why I love working in the Music industry, and work at a company like Spotify because we have various examples of where we have used music to help others and it is incredibly inspiring.

18. What is the best way to make your music stand out on Spotify i.e be selected for Editorial playlists? We talk a lot about this topic and I think everyone wishes there was a magic wand that you could wave to achieve that. The truth of it is that everyone who wants to be registered on the scene has to get out and has to play and has to do the hard yards to be able to get noticed. In effect playlists are a combination of data and human editors, but data is actually probably one of the most important factors early on where we can see if artists are popping. Those spikes in listening often come from an artist being out on the road and growing their fan base. There have never been more ways for an artist to be seen and heard. All the social media channels can be used to grow an artists visibility, then they get listened to, streams grow on the platform and then perhaps you get noticed by our editors. It is s complex business but as with everything we have said in this Q&A, hard work first!

BertozziBytesize : Communicate/Adage MENA – Audio goes everywhere.

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Marco Bertozzi, Vice President, EMEA Sales & Multi-market Global Sales at Spotify, tells  Communicate what users were listening to while social distancing was in effect around the globe and in the region.  

Original post HERE

What were the significant consumption trends by users on Spotify during the lockdown period? 

Audio plays a very important role in people’s lives, because of its flexibility in being able to follow users wherever they go. When people’s daily lifestyle was [disrupted] by the impact of Covid-19, many had to stay at home, to help prevent the spread. As the listening followed user’s into their homes, it also branched on to a variety of new platforms. So the two [components] that we really focused on were – what kind of content people were listening to and how they were listening to it?

What people were listening to People were looking for comfort during these challenging times. At Spotify, we’re able to measure behavior based on users’ [search queries] and playlists. We were able to see the users’ behavior reflected on the playlists that they were listening to. One of the most prominent trends around the globe was the increase in nostalgia. We saw a 54% increase in listeners making nostalgic-themed playlists, as well as an uptick in the share of listening to music from the ’50s, ’60s, ’70s, and ’80s. Within the UAE and KSA, there was a spike in ’90s music as well as gaming playlists.

During the initial stages of the lockdown, “Covid” and “Corona” were some of the fastest-growing search terms for podcasts around the globe. As time passed by, these search trends dropped in favor of fun and educational topics.

We’ve also seen an increase in the sharing of playlists as well as the listening of collaborative playlists between users. To give a bit of context, people are able to share Spotify playlists through a link with their friends and family via email, Whatsapp, etc. However, in a collaborative playlist, people can connect over shared music and have virtual jam sessions together. These trends were bringing people closer to one another and became a point of focus, especially for users with a family.

For family members, there was a noticeable shift from personal listening on earphones to group listening via a connected speaker. Even the content transitioned to family-oriented themes, such as kids and comedy podcasts, to keep everyone entertained. These themes were popular for group listening while news and information themed podcasts were less front and center.

During April – May, as people continued to spend most of their time indoors, they were creating playlists to keep themselves entertained, while attending to household chores. There was a 40% increase in the creation of cleaning-themed playlists, and a 65% increase in the streaming of those playlists. These playlists were popular among users in the UAE and KSA.

How they were listening At Spotify, we have always talked about a ubiquity strategy, which means being able to be with the listener wherever you want.  Think about all the different places you can listen to audio today – Mobile, tablets, desktop, connected speakers, cars, connected televisions, gaming consoles and heck there are some lucky people who even got it in their fridge. There’s no limit to the possibilities. And on top of that, it provides visibility for audio, especially from an advertising perspective.

Regardless of the circumstances, advertisers are able to follow the user wherever they go. We spoke about this [aspect] even during normal times, where advertisers were able to reach customers while they go for a run, commute to work, etc. But during the lockdown, we saw a rise in listening through other platforms such as connected speakers.

However, gaming was the platform that stood out above all others and the MENA region ranked on top in this category. Gamers are able to stream Spotify through their console while playing, and during the lockdown, we began to see a surge. Our research found a 41% increase in streaming of Spotify’s curated video game playlists across the entire platform. Digging in a little deeper, we found that the top three countries that listen to Spotify-curated video game playlists globally are in the MENA region – Tunisia, Oman, and Saudi Arabia.

As many people were working from home, desktop listening on Spotify experienced a surge as well. According to our data, between April 17th – May 17th, WFH themed playlists increased by 1400% compared to the first ten days in March.

 How were marketers leveraging the trends and communicating with consumers? Our communication with advertisers has always been around creating messages, that are contextual and relevant to what the user is doing on the platform. The lockdown period amplified that very same notion. Initially, there was a rush for advertisers to try and be empathetic with consumers about what was going on. They were quite good at responding in that manner. Slowly, a shift began towards more utility messaging, where brands have decided to not only come out and recognize the situation but also provide services that would be beneficial to the consumer.

What tips did you provide to advertisers to make sure they don’t appear like trying to profiteer from the situation? We mainly advised advertisers to use context while reaching out to users on the platform and keep the format in mind. Spotify’s streaming intelligence can identify when the screen is in view and when the audio is the star of the show. For example, an ad with a direct call-to-action is a great fit for when the screen is in view while listening on desktop, tablet, or smartphone. For screen-less moments like cooking or working out, use the power of audio to tell a story and create a memorable impression for the listener.

Since it was a sensitive period, we advised advertisers to be considerate of the cultural moment. The streaming generation is especially critical right now, as brands are rushing in to weigh in on the current moment. Being culturally relevant doesn’t just mean addressing the cultural zeitgeist. It’s about tailoring the message to [address] personal as well as cultural moments, that we can identify through audio. We cautioned brands to be careful around using explicit references to COVID-19 including words and phrases such as, “it’s going viral” or “in these uncertain times.”

People were leaning towards audio while social distancing to help fill very specific needs such as, to stay informed, grounded, and occasionally entertained. Brands can play a role in filling those needs by focusing on brand-building messages that capture emotion and nuance. They can bring these messages/stories to life on audio across multiple formats like video, audio, and display. But regardless, they have to be mindful about not adding to the overwhelming news cycle with yet another piece of brand commentary on Covid-19.

Sales in a Pandemic. Did not see that coming!

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Four years ago, I moved from agency to sales and at the time and since, a number of agency colleagues asked me about how the cross over was and asked what I had discovered. There is so much to learn in making the move and I have learned a lot along the way and more than just sales. I have solidified my leadership journey further and grown as a human. One thing four years ago I had not considered was how sales would be in a Pandemic where I have not visited the office in close to nine months and seen members of the team in person only once. That was not in the instruction manual.

By this time last year I would have visited every sales team in every country at least three times for varying lengths of time, I would have had client meetings in every country, presented at a number of conferences, attended CES, Cannes and Dmexco at a minimum. I would have eaten my body weight in pasta, Tapas and shit airport sandwiches. I would have taken at least 30 return flights. I would be exhausted but I would be full to the brim of people interaction. If you run a sales team from UK to Dubai, this is what you have to, this is sales.

Instead, I have been in my room, across the corridor staring at my screen, for nine months.

Sales leadership is something that Is heavily influenced by the human interaction. The people interactions are huge, people feed off each other in a very immediate way and momentum comes from those relationships. I have seen teams go up or down very rapidly based on those engagements. Morale is very fluid and so in the last nine months we have all had to adapt dramatically. I want to pause and give a huge shout out to all those sales leaders out there, a selection I have had a chance to talk with and know they are feeling it too!

The Pandemic has been like being in a car, seeing the corner coming but not having a steering wheel to turn, at least in a recession the steering wheel was turning to the team, brainstorming, taking refuge in humour and finding camaraderie of facing something together, maybe a drink, maybe a meal, a fitness class, a pool night, things to break up the relentlessness. This time it has been different and every single one of us in our industry has had to adapt and fast.

I can talk personally that going to countries and walking in the office gives you a chance to chat, speak to different people, learn about people on the fly. You can talk to them directly, you can get the feeedback, questions asked are important to me and in-person time tends to help draw that out. The Hangout/Zoom/Teams set up means that is very hard in a larger group and you get the sense you are broadcasting the whole time, thats my biggest sentiment, you are on broadcast, one way dialogue. It does get better in smaller groups of course but there is still an element of that, especially with people having to keep up with dialogues not in their first language. I think the biggest casualty of Zoomday is we tend to cut out the personal chat, or to a bare minimum and thats where we lose the connections, and spare a thought for all the new people who started in a lock down, we have had many and I have made a point of speaking to them all (ongoing!) and I am amazed at how positive they are and pleased our teams are rallying around them BUT excited for when they get back into the buzz!

So when I look back on this year, what have we changed, how did we do it and how in all this craziness did we win Sales Team of The Year?

  1. Agility: This comes top if the list for me. We all put so much store in strategy, we must have a plan and stick to it, this year was about how do we adapt that plan or indeed throw it out. Everything from how we interact, commission plans, market insights, obviously type of engagement, turn around times, business rules around bookings etc. The pace of adapting was amazing to see. My biggest goal was sharing of ideas/work/ideas across the region, the amount the teams have been inspiring each other has been incredible.
  2. Brand: In sales, what you sell is crucial of course and Spotify Advertising stepped up in the last nine months. A drum beat of insights, updates, analysis (not to mention some big acquisitions and announcements) allowed the team to be active in market, visible and relevant. Turning Pandemic insights into something marketable. Marketing that would have taken weeks was signed off and pushed out fast. Big shout out to our marketing teams.
  3. Offline to Online: Linked to above, the business had to get off its drug of live events, a focus in sales we take for granted, no Cannes, no Dmexco, no Festival of Media, and all the local events, our businesses are tuned to that. The transition to online was amazing to watch – LoveAudio events online were run across the region and drew huge crowds, it was a pleasure to see all those pulled together. A topic for another day, but a lot of pros to these online events.
  4. Team: Yes we would all agree that we are burned out with video calls. However, it was still important to bring people together and build team spirit. I literally cant think of a single thing we would do in person as a team that did not make it onto hangouts! Yoga, fitness, cooking, quizzes, training, drinking, eating, nail bars, hairdressing, concerts, interviews. You get the idea. All of these supplemented with chat groups that never stopped with humour and chat rolling every day – and of course Rak’s music playlists being pumped out every day.
  5. Empathy: Something that I know has been on all my leads minds, how to make sure they can look after their teams and how each member of the team has been looking out for each other. This has been huge and taken a big extra step in how we think about each other. When you are together every day those conversations happen more easily and frequently, so through these incredibly stressful times, taking extra time to think about your colleagues and reach out has been crucial. A big shout to the teams that lead amazing ERGs like Heart and Soul supporting everyone. Has this made us all more empathetic than before, thinking more laterally about the team, I hope so.
  6. Sales skills: I will say that as a sales team we have got better at sales. I am talking about Spotify but I am willing to bet it is beyond us. Sales changed this year. We had to listen to advertiser needs more than ever, we had to be agile in our solutions, we had to adapt what we had to support the brands looking to spend and indeed those who didnt. We had to dig deep into what sectors were benefitting and those that needed time. It has been so tough this year, but I genuinely think we grew as a team and we come out better than we went in as regards sales skills. I have learned a lot personally and when I moved to sales this was not one I had prepped for, but what a learning curve.
  7. Our clients: I think as an industry we came together like never before. The feeling of unity in such difficult times led to some meaningful questions, genuine conversations about life and business. We were all collectively grappling with what was in front of us and helping each other wherever possible. There was an openness to learn from each other, I felt as a sales person that clients wanted to hear what we had to say and apply it to their own challenges. Too often media brands are put in a box and only opened up when there is a very relevant connection. This last nine months has been more about learning collectively and thinking differently. Thank you to all those advertisers and agencies I have worked with this year!
  8. Onboarding: We have had to be really thorough around the process of onboarding and make sure people have a real chance to learn about the business. I think this is a good thing that will stand us in great stead for the future hiring, lock down or not.

There is so much more I could cover, to repeat something above in summary, I just feel like as a person, a team, a business and as an industry we have grown in the last nine months and perhaps some of the new behaviours started in lock down will carry on beyond, when things are more normal. A personal thanks to my whole EMEA sales team who have been amazing these last few months.

So finally, what would I like to see continue in a form of normality, lets call it PV (Post Vaccine)? So from PV1 here are some things I would love to see continue:

  1. Not all client meetings have to be in person – default is ‘does this meeting have to be in person?’
  2. An openness to listen and learn and not pre judge what Media Brands have to say
  3. Purposeful meetings, shorter and more full with challenges and ideas
  4. Events being professionally run to embrace on and offline elements so they are more inclusive
  5. A camaraderie at an Industry level – thinking collectively and in a way we solve things together.
  6. Flexible working, more trust, everyone has proved they can work from home, lets find that balance

So we are coming to the end of this 2020, all 67 months of it (quote from #wrapped2020) and it could not have been harder, but has allowed me to grow, I hope the team as a whole has grown and learned, but there is no substitute, as a human being, to be around other human beings. Noone will persuade me otherwise.

Well done you all. Here is to 2021.

We are all in our heads too much.

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First published here.

Marco Bertozzi, most recently Vice President, EMEA and Multi-Market Global Sales at Spotify is a true digital veteran and NDA’s new regular columnist. He started his career at Zenith Optimedia, went on to have leadership roles at companies including Vivaki and Starcom and has long been an influential, some might say legendary, industry figure.

Over the last few weeks I have been speaking to a lot of people. I wanted to use the time I have to try and give back a little and so offered my time to my network for advice on anything.

I have filled five days and counting so far, learnt how to used Calendly to organise all the requests and met a lot of really great people. I have written before about the importance of your network but this time it has involved 50+ calls with complete strangers bar one or two.

This was the unseen, unknown network who got the confidence to reach out to another complete stranger offering time to talk.

The topics so far have been very varied. We have talked about launching and growing businesses, people stuck at a crossroads, some struggling to find work, changes of careers, and changes of direction within their companies.

It’s only been two days but already it’s been fascinating. As I reflected on these conversations I realised there was one thing, that I haven’t heard spoken about so much, that it was clear we are all suffering from.

We are spending too much time in our own heads.

Work from home has had many impacts on us, like stress, boredom, loneliness, loss of joy and many other side effects but one less spoken about is the lack of inputs into our minds and a dramatic reduction in stimuli. Stimuli that could be a variety of things.

It could be validation, reassurance that you are doing well – who doesn’t like a ‘wow looks like you are doing great’ or ‘you guys are doing great!’ comment. In normal days, inspiration can came from anything and anywhere, whatever the stimulus is, it is welcome, it distracts, it motivates, and of course can sometimes be a negative as well but keeps you thinking externally.

The reality now is we lack all that, we are just in our heads.

Those times when you press leave or end on the video call and just sit and breathe out. Left with our own thoughts, wondering how we did, whether that was the right thing to say or not. More than that though, if we are at a juncture, starting a business, getting a job, being rejected daily, we just go around in circles in our heads.

I heard on my calls a number of times comments like, I am stuck, lost, don’t know what to do.

I firmly believe the vacuum of external stimuli has been filled with us arguing and debating with ourselves. Another dog walk alone, a chance to go over old ground again, in more ways than one.

So, after the first few days of talking, I realised for both me and the person on the other end of the call, what we were really getting out of our chat was a chance to talk to someone different, someone who had no connection to their work or business, someone who would listen without judgement and give some new stimulus. It may be reassurance, direction, feedback or sometimes a push to get out of the position of being stuck or lost.

The future of work is around the corner and I am hopeful some of what we love will return, but before then, why don’t you go looking for that stimulus.

If you are stuck or lost, get hold of someone you don’t know and just have a chat. I hope when you press Leave at the end of that next Zoom call you don’t let your brain just churn about how you did, but rather smile at the opportunities ahead.

Internal recruitment needs to be on brand and empathetic.

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As I continue to consult, mentor and devote time to myself and family I am also concurrently talking to companies about potential future roles. I wanted to reflect on my experiences of this process so far and how I have observed companies deal with me.

I have been working for nearly 25 years, held senior roles in good companies and who knows exactly what that next role will be, and yet I continue to be surprised by how little consideration and communication is given to candidates of my level and experience during these times. In this instance I am mainly focusing on in house recruitment vs agencies. I think there has been an ever growing trend towards in housing of hiring processes, especially amongst the tech companies but also traditional businesses as well. I think with that trend comes a burden on that team that I am not sure all of them realise and are probably not held accountable to from one day to the next.

If you decide as a business to have your employees engage with external candidates, especially senior ones, then they need to have the same ethos as any of your out facing teams. Those interactions set the tone, they leave lasting impressions and who knows may damage future relations depending on where that candidate lands. Bad news travels fast right? Well those looking for a role, especially those not currently employed will be particularly conscious of that brand experience, and that’s what it is, your recruitment team are representing your brand. 

In these short months that I have been engaged with in house recruiters and indeed actual managers within businesses I have experienced many different versions of that process. I have spoken to a couple of companies that have been in communication through out, followed up, did what they said they would do and that’s all one asks. On the other hand I have been blanked. Now let’s be realistic, you can’t always expect things to move forwards, perhaps they don’t like the cut of your jib or your background is not what they wanted and so things don’t progress, we are all grown ups, what I do expect though is feedback and a decline. Take Conde Nast, contacted by them after an application, interview with recruiter, followed by interview with HR and then blanked. I personally believe that if you have asked a candidate to talk twice, you owe them politeness and respect to update and decline or move forwards. 

Hiring is not personal, you should never take it personally, finding the right candidate or job is about finding the round peg to fit in the round hole and it’s easy to find a little edge that catches and stops that fit, that’s fine, it’s natural. What is personal is how you go about doing that and I am afraid there are many external facing recruitment people who are either not trained or not scrutinised as to how they engage candidates. I think it’s a shame for two simple reasons. The first is you can absolutely set the tone of your organisation through these contacts, you are sending a message and when these candidates end up in other businesses, perhaps potential clients, they will feel positively about your business or not and secondly its is not difficult, it’s simple manners, it’s simple communication that costs the recruiter nothing but gives that job hunter a feeling of knowing where they stand and what’s next. 

Finding a new role is so exciting and I am loving all the possibilities, but it’s important to be true to yourself and expect a certain level of respect. Be thoughtful everyone. Times are tough without treating people with no consideration.

Digital advertising: Should we return to simpler days?

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First Published in New Media Age here

Marco Bertozzi, most recently Vice President, EMEA and Multi-Market Global Sales at Spotify is a true digital veteran and NDA’s new regular columnist. He started his career at Zenith Optimedia, went on to have leadership roles at companies including Vivaki and Starcom and has long been an influential, some might say legendary, industry figure.

This latest Google news has really got the advertising community talking. There are a plethora of articles that paint a very dark picture of where the death of third-party cookies on the Google landscape will take us. There is a lot of money at stake and it’s serious topic for many, but for now, I want to reminisce a little.

I started working in digital in 2000. I worked alongside some wonderful people Martin Kelly, Andy Cocker, Damian Burns, Damian Blackden, many have gone on to amazing careers in advertising. We worked for Zenith Interactive Solutions (you can tell its old with Interactive in the title).

If you worked in digital back then you will know that actually the digital landscape was very close to print advertising. We used to pull together schedules based on target audiences that would reflect what we thought the audience would enjoy. If you wanted to reach a 35+ ABC1 man then roll out the golf websites, automotive websites, maybe some finance one and we tried to squeeze in gardening as it was also one of our clients (Greenfingers.com).

Our KPIs were clicks and click throughs, the schedules ran into double pages, sometimes 40/50 lines deep. At the start there was no third-party tracking. We did not have audience segments, retargeting was rare, even the scourge of the internet, ad networks had not taken off.

For the younger readers there was also no Google, YouTube, Facebook, Snap, Twitter, or TikTok and algorithms were still a NASA-based concept. No, back then we did one very simple thing, we worked out what our target audiences liked and consumed and we put ads in front of them. When we wanted scale we had a Yahoo home page takeover, that was as crazy as it got!

Trouble was, print was not cool, and there were so many sites that we found it all a little inefficient and so we started down the road of tracking, adserving and ad networks to make things a little easier. The rest as they say is history, digital advertising was born and we have been on a 20-year journey of excitement about data and adtech to get us to become the dominant advertising channel and deliver a brave new world.

Or have we?

When you look back, when you really ask yourself now whether things were better or worse, it is hard to say. Yes, that sounds like some old bloke reminiscing and I am, perhaps stretching things, but is everyone happy with what we have?

Can we all hand on heart say that the terrible targeting around the web, the uncomfortable arrival in your feeds of things you had spoken about days before, the repetitive ads for the same product for weeks, one perhaps you had already bought, can we really say things are better?

Still today you are hard pushed to find loads of data proving that audience segments really outperform their cost, indeed the most common discussion is that data segments don’t pay back for performance. I think there is a reason for that, they are just not that good. They are built out of shonky data with little transparency and the tough situation we face now is that a few giant companies have the good data, they are the biggest and they dominate.

But maybe we were on to something back in the day. When Damian Burns walked in each morning with his massive coffee, when Simon Halstead took a bite into his bacon sandwich and Andy Cocker took out his calculator to negotiate his next deal, we all had one goal.

How to reach audiences so that advertisers could place ads in front of them based on context and content.

We wanted to show products and services to the right people and publishers were where we went. Even the portals were all about channels – Auto, Finance etc.

Perhaps we have an opportunity to reset and start to think about how we support publishers and quality content and start to spend where audiences are because they are properly engaging with content, not because they just liked their cousin’s photo.

Advertisers need to prioritise quality over quantity so let’s use the death of the cookie as a chance to return to a simpler mission, one less driven by adtech making money and more for publishers to make money.

Consultancy vs Full time work – is it for you?

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As someone who has only ever been employed by a company for the last 25 years, I was always fascinated with the concept of consultancy. It seemed to be the thing you did when you got too old to be employed in the industry (about 35). I think I always used to think it must be a slightly unsatisfactory type of work, just getting involved with the feedback and strategy but not the execution. I think overall I was naive about it and didn’t really understand how many types of consultancy there are and how many people are involved and my own involvement so far has opened my eyes to this way of working.

After leaving Spotify I started Bertozzi49, my own company that I started in my 49th year. It was time to explore what this consultancy lark was about. The first thing I would say is there is a difference between someone who has decided to do this for the rest of their career or for a temporary period of time. In my case it is for a temporary period of time, allowing me time to focus on my new business (soon to be announced and not in the media space) and any full time role interviews. I think perhaps that makes it harder as you don’t necessarily invest in marketing yourself hard and your messaging is not as focused but on the other hand, it means you are likely closer to being a practitioner vs a serial consultant and further from the sharp end of business.

I am excited by the projects I have worked on so far, one was a project evaluating sales structure and approach for a ‘grown up’ but they rightly wanted to plan for future scaling, it was short and sweet and focused and fitted into my own view of a ‘second opinion’ approach. Another was much more in depth, over a longer period and was a genuine chance to get close to a company’s business, a big media company at that. The second was tougher for me, as I really wanted to go deeper and further into the business and see our proposals executed but that’s not our job and I think that’s what you have to get used to in many cases. However, the upside of that is that you get to be really brave on your strategy, you are unencumbered by existing baggage, internal politics, personal or corporate targets etc and allows freedom of thought which is a nice change from having to cope with the day to day as well as strategising. I think the worst thing I can do as a consultant is not be straight, honest and challenge the thinking, hopefully the business you are working for is open to that and not paying people to validate their own formed views.

Interview processes are SLOW and so this kind of work is very useful to keep you sharp, thinking about the industry and importantly out in the market place talking to the wonderful network. It is also a chance to learn about an area of the business that you may not take a full time role in, but by understanding it better is adding to your overall expertise and knowledge. When I move back into a full time role, I know these experiences will be invaluable to that company. As I start my own business in the automotive sector, these learnings also help shape how we plan for the future as well.

I would also say that this is where social media comes into its own, my LinkedIn network and Twitter network has been amazing through these last few months and provided me with so many good leads and opportunities so I highly recommend to all those starting out in your career, start building your network now, don’t dismiss social and don’t be that person who says ‘do you ever do any work?’ based on someone’s social activity, more fool you in my view. These platforms could be the bedrock of future business or people helping you with your own business, I dont know where I would be without the support of the network here on Linkedin.

I am excited to announce two more projects in the coming weeks that I will be more visible as I will be representing the companies in the market to some extent, so more to come on that – they are in two incredibly exciting companies and can’t wait to get the news out there and start to get some momentum in the marketplace. Bertozzi49 well and truly firing on all cylinders.

So overall, I think this approach to work can be very fulfilling, you can learn a lot and help many people and businesses. I think if you are still heavily drawn by wanting to do the execution part and seeing all your hard work come to fruition (thats me) then perhaps there is still another salary job left in you, but if you like the strategy part and the variety of consultancy then I would highly recommend it! Whatever you do, good luck!


Are you defined by your job?

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What’s your first reaction? It will probably vary depending on a few factors.

  • How high profile is your work or job,
  • how high profile are you as an individual
  • what else is happening in your life,
  • what other things are you doing outside of work.

Most importantly:

  • Have you ever had to cope with the question

There will be others, but those will definitely be large contributing factors as to how you answer the question. I know there will be people out there who have had to deal with this question, who are still dealing with it and those that have not, so depending on that this article will either be irrelevant or perhaps a sage piece of understanding for a potential future state or you will be sat there living every word.

I have been high profile over the years, by that I don’t mean some big cheese or something conceited, I mean I have always had opinions and been vocal about them, I have always been busy on Twitter and LinkedIn, worked in sectors or companies like Spotify that have been in demand and so have stayed visible. I have enjoyed doing it. I have always taken a lot of pride in the companies I worked for and the people I worked with in those companies. I have enjoyed the wins, been excited seeing my colleagues do well and progress, it’s a buzz.

So what happens when that stops and you no longer have the big job in the big company?

What happens when the invites stop.

What happens when the journalists stop calling because you don’t ‘represent a company’

What happens when all that experience you have built up is no longer useful in the job market.

What happens when 25 years of being high profile does not get you an interview anymore, too old, too expensive.

There will be many people out there who have been or are going through it right now. It’s tough, isolating, pretty soul destroying. Yes there are people worse off and having it harder, but that does not diminish your own challenges.

Well I will tell you what happens, you have to make your own story, you have to stop relying on your company, your profile, your job. I have so much advice for people, I can’t fit it in here but I am going to tell you my experience as succinctly as possible. This has been my roadmap and here’s my advice.

  1. Help others and ask nothing. When things feel a little dark, helping others gives so much positivity to the system. I offered my LinkedIn network my time for advice about any topic. I filled 70+ meetings, it felt great and I hope helped some people. I continue to do it now, two tomorrow in fact.
  2. Stay visible and don’t be afraid to post and comment and write if you feel that way inclined, keep talking, keep meeting. Enjoy having an independent voice.
  3. Find People, companies, charities that do value your experience and will embrace your knowledge, it may be consulting, it maybe pro bono but get that inspiration going again.
  4. Dedicate time to causes you care about, do more of the stuff you could not before. I have enjoyed working with people trying to change advertising for the better and it feels good to do.
  5. Talk to people who have left the industry or are doing exciting things around it. I have been inspired by people who are not fixated with our industry and have done their own thing. It might be setting up a Gin company (Kirstine) or finding new ways to recruit (Kate) or created start ups and travelled the world (Andy) or try to change the world (Seyi / Spencer) or helping others (Shereen) They are not defined by what they used to do, but what they do.
  6. If you can then create something for yourself. Even setting up a company so as to act as a consultant feels empowering. I purposely set up http://www.bertozzi49.com to remind me of the year of my life that my career changed for ever. I have since set up a second business with a friend that is launching in the Autumn in the automotive sector and it’s been a while since I have felt such pride. Not everyone will set a business up, but if you have an idea, go for it. I had been toying with this idea but until I spoke to Andy Hart who said ‘just go and fucking talk to this guy’ I was procrastinating, so I took his advice and here we are.
  7. Even though I am doing a number of amazing things right now, I still dread the ‘what do you do question’ because I don’t have a quick answer and I know I don’t have time to explain that I do lots of things and I can’t just say ‘I am VP Spotify EMEA’. This is the definition stage, this is the what am I worth stage. It’s the toughest one, a few people say to me ‘we are waiting to see your next big job’. It makes me wince. The reason being, that’s not the path anymore. It’s not the definition of me anymore. It might be, but it’s not where I am aiming. It’s taken me 8 months to understand that by doing other things, by taking a break, by not being in the day to day I am someone else. I am now an entrepreneur, I am now a consultant (currently for the amazing Whalar), I am now a Board advisor for a really hot Music NFT platform being launched soon and so on. I am the sum of all I have done and I am working on all the new things I am going to do. Sorry, no simple ‘this is what I do’

So a message to those who are out there struggling right now, it is vital you take your own control, In the time it has taken me to start two businesses, become advisor to two amazing companies, to consult for 4 businesses I have had 3 meaningful job conversations in 8 months…3. It is vital that you create your own next steps and make your own future. You can’t allow the industry to define you. Spend some time thinking about what and who you are, what you have done, not who you work for, how many people work for you, what company it is, come up with a new answer to the ‘what do you do’.

And a message to everyone who currently does not have to answer my original question because you have a great job and the world is great. Remember you will be judged by how you act with someone in times of trouble, not when things are great. Take a second to think about how you could help a colleague, call them, intro them, meet for lunch, whatever. If they are consulting and need an hour of your time, give it to them. Journalists, go talk to those not working for big orgs, they are much more likely to talk freely about the industry, get them on some panels and help keep their names visible. This has been a tough year for many, as an industry we can all support each other.

I would like to say Thanks to all of those people who have been unrelenting in staying in touch, being helpful, encouraging even as things went up and down. I want to wish all those I have spoken to over the last few months, even those I was meant to be helping. Thank you for the time you have given up.

Good luck everyone. There is so much out there to do, lets do it.

Yours Entrepreneur, consultant, advisor, investor, mentor, job hunter and all around pain in the arse!

History repeats itself for Audio, like ‘digital’ before it.

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Recently Warc released one of it’s reports on media channel revenues vs time spent and I have seen a lot of commentary about the big gap between time spent (31%) and percentage of advertiser revenues (9%) in the audio space. As someone who was involved in digital back in 2000 and all the way through its growth it reminds me of how much the digital crowd used to complain about the exact same thing. To compound the digerati were always incredibly frustrated by the fact newspapers used receive disproportionally more revenue than they should.

I think in both cases, although from different directions, the one thing it shows is that the advertising community, both agencies and advertisers tend to move a little more slowly than the audiences out in the world. Speed of change is vital from a number of angles, firstly the industry moves more slowly than audiences, but then within that, some businesses (not all) move even more slowly and eventually start to fall behind. There are organisations in the Radio world for instance that need to continue to change and change fast to keep up with those audiences that represent that 31% and actually take advantage of them. The Publisher world has seen winners and losers and those who are winning all have one thing in common, they grabbed the future with both hands and turned it to their advantage. Companies like Hearst, Future, Telegraph, Guardian each took the chance to capitalise on digital developments and it has paid off for them.

SO back to Audio, and those who are commenting on the gap, what I would say is that although sometimes it is frustrating, I do believe the industry eventually does catch up and Audio will continue to see a great growth over the coming years. I have seen some comments about how radio is cheap / cost effective and other related words, as a means of explaining why advertisers should engage, I would massively look out for and avoid this kind of rhetoric. Many of the digital audio companies like Spotify, DAX etc are by no means cheap and rightly so, they bring the benefits of audio with the data and targeting of digital, they deserve to expect a premium. Audio just needs to keep focusing on its benefits and demonstrating the commercial benefits of spending with their media channel – TV and Radio has had years of demonstrating ROI, digital audio on the other hand needs to work a bit harder in that area, years of learned performance will help advertisers invest more and more and thats when the revenue will start to shift at scale.

Overall I am incredibly optimistic for Audio and I think we will see lots more growth to come, but the traditional publishers in Radio have to adapt fast to take advantage of this and the digital audio companies must demonstrate ROI if they are to shift that revenue vs time imbalance, only time will tell, but I am very optimistic.





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